Curse

havok019 · Aug 07, 2007, 07:50 PM // 19:50

Here's another tale from the frontlines. . .

I'm a Warrior and after seeing the wonders of General Morgahn to my hero line a staunch para supporter. Yesterday, I was forming a group for the Deep. Usually, this is a very difficult process at 2:30 a.m. and frequently can take over an hour to get a group. But at 5 p.m. (EST), to constantly deal with party drops and adds and advertising and spend an hour of time just to get a full group that won't leave? Twice, we got up to 12 people and someone dropped.

The reason. . .We had a Paragon in the party.

I got whispers from those that will remain nameless they were concerned about having a para in the party. I had one guy join, then leave, then request to come back, only to state "This is the para party again" and drop.

I whispered this fool and said "What don't you like about a paragon in The Deep?"
Response, "They are a wasted spot. They don't have range to keep buffs on warriors and can't heal very well."
My response, "There's Nothing to Fear foo'. Have you even read what this skill does?"
And no response.

So, we had a group discussion on the plight of the paragon. I commented that paragons were great for The Deep. And 2 of 10 agreed with me.

And it's not like the para we had was a noob. I can't remember exact bar but I know I saw:

[card]"Go For The Eyes!"[/card][card]Angelic Bond[/card][card]"Save Yourselves!"[/card][card]"There's Nothing To Fear!"[/card][card]Signet of Return[/card]
and probably some fire and energy party buffs.

Oh lowly Paragon, why are you so disrespected? Is it the energy for the casters you provide that others don't like? Perhaps it's the damage dispersal and mitigation you provide the silly eles, or the armor and health bonuses you provide the ever-aggro happy tanks? Could it be the ranged attack or the new melee attack to come in GWEN?

I don't know what to do about you Paragon. I've tried to change minds, but some minds are set. But for me, personally, as a humble warrior, when I'm venturing into a very difficult locale where I'm just supposed to stand there and get pounded and if I fall the party probably wipes, I'll take more health, damage reduction and armor buffs please.

Trx · Aug 07, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

If people dont understand constant 35% damage reduction and a 60 point party heal every 10 seconds on 12 people is a good thing then well I can only conclude they are not very smart. And thats just the sunspear skill. If the paragon is set up to spam "Save Yourselves" on top of that (can be up almost 100% at alliance rank 3 or higher and Focused Anger as elite) then its even more amazing (imo a bit too amazing even if its just pve).

Like you said they can provide some group wide energy gain, AF buffs, hex/condition removal etc etc depending on the build and add decent ranged damage. I love mine, and when I played another class in the past I also always took Morghan for the damage reduction, which when fighting high damage enemies helps alot more then adding just extra healing. But what can you do, some people can't adept to new options and will stick to their old (t)rusty setup. I don't really care because I mostly group with heroes and henchies lol.

Arkantos · Aug 07, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Paragons are a great profession for PvE, especially with TNTF and SY. You cannot convince people who live by cookie cutter builds to understand that. If you want to do the deep with a paragon in your party, either do a guild/alliance group, or a pug of people who are somewhat smart. Since that's almost impossible, the guild/alliance group is really the only way.

arsie · Aug 08, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Not a lot will change these people's minds.

Anyone who doubts what a Paragon can do in a tough map, should just get out of the Paragon's shout range during a tough fight. For about 2-3 seconds would do.

blue.rellik · Aug 08, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

People are stupid, paragons are simply amazing in PvE. Personally I find the best prot paragon better than the best prot rit or monk.

distilledwill · Aug 10, 2007, 01:34 AM // 01:34

with their ability to maintain fire on most enemies thru anthem of flame and blazing finale, combined with "ToF!", party wide energy management and blanket healing capability; my para hero is never out of my party.
They're equally enjoyable to play, with high DPS due to spear of lightning etc. I love paras, its just a shame about the armour. :P

pingu666 · Aug 10, 2007, 01:09 PM // 13:09

think the oni's will teleport if they take weapon damage (i was told that) so the para wont be able to lob spear enuff maybe.

my friend was slight out of range of my para and she died

, was a survivor too

Etta · Aug 10, 2007, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Paragons don't need to fight to prove that they're right and they don't need to be forgiven. A good guild team will know what a good paragon is capable of. In any elite areas a pair of paragons can cover the whole team with armor+ buff, lower enermies dmg output by XX%, there're a lot more but i cant be arse to type them in.

Paragon is not the problem, it's the pug mindset that's the problem. As 70% of them are idiots. And those who don't know how to play as one. So Op, don't lose any sleep over it, I know i don't.

zwei2stein · Aug 11, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Problem with paragon in deep is that he cant attack in most encounters, thus for example awesome skill like Save Youselves is mostly wasted.

That actually allows you to be ashpot carrier and you can use sologon ashes, not that bad.

I wouldnt mind seeing para instead of 4th monk, damage reduction should make up for any HP spamming

and: PARAGON CAN BOND ALL THE TANKS. even in enchant free room. monks them simply can put seed of life on him and watch blue numbers pop up. It can be awesome in spell-free room where you send warrior luring.

Pros:
* Huge defence (TNtF+SYG+TAoNF)
* Bonds (!)
* Life regen (iirc, it can offset degen in kanaxai room), energy for casters.
* Can carry awesome hard res (either flesh or sig of return)
Cons:
* Cant be one of tanks (three are needed simply because of what happens if one rages.): no kd capabilities without secondary not teleport
* Cant contribute to damange (onis ...)
* Cant really use adrenal skills (unless he takes signet of agression or something, but thats meh.)
* Will propably need bip every so often.

Hmm, why dont deep groups have P/Rt again?

zwei2stein · Aug 11, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

I am all up for having deep group with paragon

3x W/A
3x Mo
3x Ele
1x Bip/SS/Para

and then post pictures of awesome success to break ice.

King's Spectre · Aug 14, 2007, 01:46 PM // 13:46

With the new Signet of Aggresion, a paragon with a good kurz/lux rank should be able to keep Save Yourselves up about half the time without even attacking. It could also be used to grab energy for TNtF and ToF.

Team builds with paragons need to escape the paragon forums and get some buzz in the main forums and (?) wikis.

ZenRgy · Aug 14, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Paragons sync great with PvE (as Arkantos said) but people are stupid, well most.

People have this mindset paragons are bad because of things like motivation and "Incoming!" nerfs, if you really want to run one - get your guild to go with you and bring a paragon. Most of the pugs down there tend to fail (or you just get jackasses)

qazwersder · Aug 14, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Paragons are extremely effective in the deep, my guild knows. Drop a monk and take a paragon.

zwei2stein · Aug 17, 2007, 08:27 AM // 08:27

After para-bonding few groups in deep ... not only paragons work well, it has also quite good reputation actually.

Bigged problem is thou, that most people, when they get you, dont know how to properly coperate.

Common problems:
* Warriors running off to lure without giving you chance to refresh bond, or without bond at all.
* Monks not cycling seed on you (Its not funny if you die because monk wated to counter your damage with breeze)
* Monks rather putting seeds on warrior than bonder.
* BiP biping you at inconvenient times (you want bip just as lurer runs to lure and just afte all enemies died, not during combat (with expection of kanaxai.))

All theese things make you way less effective than you could be. Its no longer people not taking you to party, you alway find monk or tank who will demand you not being kicked from party, but its rest of team not knowing how to play with you.

Series · Aug 27, 2007, 05:48 AM // 05:48

I play paragon and I have to say... if you don't want me in your group, it is YOUR loss. The people who reject paragons are probably the same as those who reject prot monks.